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Nov. 8th, 2011 09:41 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kiridethIt disturbs me that there are people who think this way. I mean, I already knew. But it disturbs me whenever I see it anyway.
Full context: This is a log from a public chat between myself and another user. Ostensibly about a hypothetical world where women are never allowed to say "no". (Note that I am not treating it as quite so hypothetical. Because even in a world where women aren't allowed to say no, we may want to say no. And that world isn't all that different from the real world anyway.) Usernames removed... to protect myself, really. Besides, anyone who knows him knows who it is anyway. This isn't unusual behavior for him.
User: serious discussion here
User: SHOULD women have a say in who they're with? seems to cause problems and fight nature
User: JUST SAYIN *steps away*
Me: I find it hard to believe you're not trolling.
User: lol!
User: there's a little bit of fun instigation poking in there that i thought was obvious enough not to take offensively
User: BUT
User: there's a little bit of point behind the argument
User: that being said, something to discuss. im not saying thats what i believe in
Me: So let me put it this way. If a guy propositions a girl, shouldn't she have the right to say no?
User: you're asking me? how should i know? maybe.
User: i can consider something without taking a stance on it
Me: Personally, I find very little as off-putting as a man who thinks he is entitled to my attention for no reason other than that he finds me attractive.
User: attention? on the grounds of the argument presented, he may feel entitled to much more than that. what you're talking about is a much smaller level
Me: I may be employing understatement.
User: i see.
User: well, what you gotta understand in this argument presented here, is how you feel really doesn't matter.
Me: No, it really does.
User: lol
User: but it's possible if the world acted and operated that way, you wouldn't feel the same way. you say that under the circumstances you've lived and seen thus far
Me: I was friends with a guy who operated that way. Was. It was not at all a pleasant situation.
User: I don't see how that can pertain to what I say. it still stands to reason that if everybody operated that way, it might be a more pleasant situation
User: it's easy for it not to be pleasant when he's the one and only
Me: He wasn't the only one. Just the closest.
User: still not everybody
Me: And it's a damn good thing it's not everybody. That's the kind of mentality that creates rapists.
User: I'm not going to say what I want to say.
User: I'm not.
Me: If a guy really honestly doesn't respect a woman's boundaries or consent, how does that NOT leave him with the mentality that it might be okay to rape?
User: You are pushing me to say something that nobody will even take the time to consider, and will forever label me as lesser than I already am.
User: **** it
User: You're missing the point. the point is, what the woman wants doesn't matter. in that scenario, rape aint such a bad thing, or even important
User: I said it much nicer than I would have originally.
Me: I hope you never encounter a man who doesn't respect your right to refuse his advances.
User: ok, thanks
User: that does nothing for the discussion btw
Honestly, I'm still feeling a little gross after all that. Were we talking past each other? Maybe. But only because his "hypothetical that no one would ever consider" is too close to my reality.
Full context: This is a log from a public chat between myself and another user. Ostensibly about a hypothetical world where women are never allowed to say "no". (Note that I am not treating it as quite so hypothetical. Because even in a world where women aren't allowed to say no, we may want to say no. And that world isn't all that different from the real world anyway.) Usernames removed... to protect myself, really. Besides, anyone who knows him knows who it is anyway. This isn't unusual behavior for him.
User: serious discussion here
User: SHOULD women have a say in who they're with? seems to cause problems and fight nature
User: JUST SAYIN *steps away*
Me: I find it hard to believe you're not trolling.
User: lol!
User: there's a little bit of fun instigation poking in there that i thought was obvious enough not to take offensively
User: BUT
User: there's a little bit of point behind the argument
User: that being said, something to discuss. im not saying thats what i believe in
Me: So let me put it this way. If a guy propositions a girl, shouldn't she have the right to say no?
User: you're asking me? how should i know? maybe.
User: i can consider something without taking a stance on it
Me: Personally, I find very little as off-putting as a man who thinks he is entitled to my attention for no reason other than that he finds me attractive.
User: attention? on the grounds of the argument presented, he may feel entitled to much more than that. what you're talking about is a much smaller level
Me: I may be employing understatement.
User: i see.
User: well, what you gotta understand in this argument presented here, is how you feel really doesn't matter.
Me: No, it really does.
User: lol
User: but it's possible if the world acted and operated that way, you wouldn't feel the same way. you say that under the circumstances you've lived and seen thus far
Me: I was friends with a guy who operated that way. Was. It was not at all a pleasant situation.
User: I don't see how that can pertain to what I say. it still stands to reason that if everybody operated that way, it might be a more pleasant situation
User: it's easy for it not to be pleasant when he's the one and only
Me: He wasn't the only one. Just the closest.
User: still not everybody
Me: And it's a damn good thing it's not everybody. That's the kind of mentality that creates rapists.
User: I'm not going to say what I want to say.
User: I'm not.
Me: If a guy really honestly doesn't respect a woman's boundaries or consent, how does that NOT leave him with the mentality that it might be okay to rape?
User: You are pushing me to say something that nobody will even take the time to consider, and will forever label me as lesser than I already am.
User: **** it
User: You're missing the point. the point is, what the woman wants doesn't matter. in that scenario, rape aint such a bad thing, or even important
User: I said it much nicer than I would have originally.
Me: I hope you never encounter a man who doesn't respect your right to refuse his advances.
User: ok, thanks
User: that does nothing for the discussion btw
Honestly, I'm still feeling a little gross after all that. Were we talking past each other? Maybe. But only because his "hypothetical that no one would ever consider" is too close to my reality.
no subject
Date: 2011-11-08 08:08 pm (UTC)Yeah, and it would be great too if hypothetically every asshole with this idea was suddenly wiped from the face of the planet in a horrible, painful way. That really would make everyone happier. Hypothetically.
no subject
Date: 2011-11-08 10:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-11-08 10:41 pm (UTC)